Maria Kim

Christina Hur: Hello! Thanks for making time to chat with me.

Maria Kim: Oh, no problem.

Christina Hur: I know you're a busy person. Do you know around how long you're able to talk, so I know in advance?

Maria Kim: I don't have anything until about two hours later, so you can take your time, just ask me anything.

Christina Hur: Oh, thank you. So first, I want to ask… how would you define jazz? What's your definition of jazz?

Maria Kim: Jazz for me is a language. You can communicate with anyone using this language of jazz. You can play music with other musicians and communicate with jazz fans in other countries, even if they don’t speak the same language. I can just play music and they can feel what I try to express. So I would define it as a language.

Christina Hur: Yeah, I hear so many people saying that. Among jazz musicians, it's kind of like a conversation.

Maria Kim: Mhm.

Christina Hur: I would also like to know, do you currently live in Korea?

Maria Kim: Yeah, I'm living in Korea. I was born and raised here until I went to college at 20, so yeah, living here forever.

Christina Hur: Oh, okay. So how different is the jazz scene in Korea and in the U.S.?

Maria Kim: In the U.S., it has a long history of jazz and so many musicians everywhere. It has various genres and subgenres — some people play bebop, some swing, some Latin. In Korea, we have a shorter history of people playing jazz, maybe 20–30 years total. But young musicians are trying to play more, and we have many jazz festivals. The general audience really enjoys jazz concerts, especially outdoor festivals. I’d say there are more younger musicians and listeners in Korea. When I bring musicians from the States, they always say there are so many young audience members here.

Christina Hur: Interesting. What about the education? Can you tell any difference between how it is in America versus Korea?

Maria Kim: I went to college in Boston — Berklee College of Music and New England Conservatory. I really liked the curriculum and the system there, but the tuition is much higher—about five times more expensive. I felt like they really used the money for the students. For example, I took multiple ensemble classes per semester and was often the only vocalist and pianist in the group. I got to spend time playing nine or ten songs with the other band members and have a final concert at the end of the semester. The teacher had enough time to give feedback and really take care of me. In Korea, tuition is lower and music programs are smaller. In ensembles, there are often many other singers or pianists, so students sometimes have to wait their turn. Professors don’t have enough time to meet with each student individually. So for education, I much prefer the system in the U.S., though it could be different at other colleges. I was at a really good school and received a lot of support from teachers. But tuition is very high.

Christina Hur: Mhm. What about the relationships between students? Do they get to form close bonds outside of classes in Korea?

Maria Kim: Most Korean universities run more like a grade system — freshmen, sophomores, etc. You enter with a group and take the same classes until graduation, so you get to know everyone. In the U.S., you sign up for classes individually, and as long as you fulfill your credits, you graduate. You don’t necessarily have a fixed group of classmates. Even Berklee and NEC are different—Berklee is big with many majors, so you might not meet everyone even after four years. NEC is small, so I got to know everyone and play with them.

Christina Hur: It's okay if you don’t want to answer this, but did socioeconomic status ever influence your career in jazz?

Maria Kim: Where are you living right now?

Christina Hur: New Jersey, right next to New York City.

Maria Kim: Yeah, so New York and Seoul are very similar. When I visit New York, some things are more expensive, but it's similar. Some New York musicians visited Korea and said the same. When I went to Oklahoma, everything was cheap. Payment for musicians is similar to New York — if you play at a small club you don't make a lot, but as a jazz musician you have to aim higher. If you keep making records, advertising yourself, and doing concerts, eventually festivals will invite you. I feel like I make enough to support my music, make records, and advertise. You just keep recording, doing concerts, and advertising. It sounds easy but a lot happens along the way. Many musicians say you just have to keep going. There will be difficult times — you want to practice but you have homework, errands, etc. You just keep pursuing your career. [possible misunderstanding of question; discusses earnings]

Christina Hur: Yeah, I feel like it's probably really discouraging early on if you don’t get many opportunities. So… I should have asked earlier, but how did you first get into jazz?

Maria Kim: I started as a classical pianist when I was three. My mom lost me at the bank, and she found me at a piano studio just slamming the piano. So she sent me to lessons since then. Then I turned 15. I was still playing piano, but more professionally. My piano teacher back then was very strict. She would put me in the practice room, and if I didn’t make any sound, she would come in and pinch me and ask, “What are you doing?” I didn’t want to do it, but I had to, so I kept playing the same thing over and over again and got sick of it. I was like… I have to make sounds so she wouldn't get upset, but I don’t want to play this. I started changing it on my own, improvising secretly. I wondered if there was any other music I could do “legally,” so I looked for other genres, and then I found jazz, and I was like, yeah, that’s it!

But then I realized there were so many other things I had to learn. At first, I thought it would be completely free, like I could do anything, but it wasn’t like that. I had played music all my life, so I didn’t have any other option. That ended up being a good thing for me, because I wasn’t good at other things. Music was the only thing I could play, so choosing a career was fairly easy. I just kept playing. My piano teacher then told me I was playing too much because it was improvisation. When you start jazz piano, you’re excited and overplay—you don’t have to breathe. He suggested I sing while playing, so I would naturally restrict myself. I started singing, and it was really fun, so I did both at the same time.

Christina Hur: So, you started singing later in life?

Maria Kim: Yeah, after about two years of jazz piano.

Christina Hur: Interesting. Do you feel like your parents supported you going into jazz?

Maria Kim: My dad really didn’t like me pursuing a music career. I’d tell him I needed money for a math class, and then I’d go to piano lessons instead. A lot of Korean parents don’t support kids doing music. Many musicians don’t get much parental support.

Even though I was in high school, after graduation I had to find my own path. Parents don’t understand music until you start working deeply in it. Even now, my mom doesn’t fully understand what I do. She’d hear me practicing and think, “Why are you playing the same tune over and over?” Now they support me more, but at first, I didn’t get support from anyone. I trusted myself. Even applying to Berklee College of Music, I didn’t tell my parents. I auditioned, got a scholarship, and then told them. They were shocked. I didn’t need any financial support from them, so I just went.

Maria Kim: I had about a year break because the Korean school year starts in March and the American one in September. I also attended a Korean university for one semester to see what I’d missed, just one step.

Christina Hur: Oh, wow. I actually relate to you a lot. Many Korean kids start classical piano, violin, or flute young, and then often lose interest or rarely continue with music. I’ve always loved music, begged for lessons since 4 years old. For three years now, I’ve asked my parents about jazz and classical piano lessons, even as birthday gifts. I reached out to jazz musicians and instructors in NYC and found one in Harlem that I really liked, but they disapproved right away, even when I said I would pay for lessons myself. But my mom was okay with me interviewing jazz musicians because it wasn’t a weekly financial commitment.

So right now, piano is a hobby whenever I have time. It’s probably my number one hobby… I enjoy sight-reading and playing transcriptions. It’s a great hobby, but often when I go over three hours, my mom starts yelling and dragging me out of the piano room.

Maria Kim: Jazz isn’t popular anymore, so it can be hard to find anyone who loves it. But over time, you’ll meet others and build your own community. Being close to New York City will help a lot.

Christina Hur: That’s true, especially for college. I want to be near a major city—New York or Chicago.

Maria Kim: Makes sense.

Christina Hur: In what you compose, do you ever use your cultural influences?

Maria Kim: It can be different depending on the musician, but I think jazz is a language. There are many subgenres and styles, but ultimately, it’s its own language. Like when you hear someone speak English, you can tell if they’re a native speaker or not. Similarly, when you listen to jazz, you can tell if someone truly “speaks” jazz.

Many people talk about “Korean jazz,” but I see it like this: English is English. When I play jazz, I want to express jazz itself. I try to communicate and collaborate with musicians from other countries, and I want to be seen as an equal human being—just another jazz musician—rather than being evaluated differently because I’m Korean or a woman. I don’t want any advantage or disadvantage; I want to be evaluated purely as a jazz musician.

Christina Hur: So you don’t feel the need to force yourself to incorporate Korean influences?

Maria Kim: Exactly. But for my recent album, Love Letters, released this May, I did play one Korean traditional song composed 100 years ago. I didn’t do it because it was Korean, but because I was asked to arrange it. At first, I hesitated—I didn’t know much pop or Korean music, having listened mostly to classical and jazz. Eventually, I listened to the song without prejudice and realized the melody had blues elements. The lyrics were a letter to a mother, and I related to that personally because I had been studying abroad and missed my own mother. I arranged the song and really enjoyed it, so I included it on my album. Not because it was Korean, but because I connected with the music itself.

I wouldn’t say I’ll never play Korean music, but I don’t play it just because I’m Korean. If I like any music—Korean, Brazilian, American, whatever—I might play it. But I wouldn’t limit myself to Korean music just because of my nationality.

Christina Hur: But do you think outside of music, you really identify with other parts of Korean culture?

Maria Kim: Oh, in terms of general culture… have you been to Korea?

Christina Hur: Yeah, I went this June, and I feel like I’ve been there a lot since I was younger.

Maria Kim: Mm-hmm. Well, living in Seoul, a lot of things are very westernized. Signs on stores are in English, people eat hamburgers or drink coffee in the morning. Many American friends are surprised when they visit—they expect traditional Korean breakfasts, but often they just have sandwiches and coffee. You’re visiting from the States, so maybe some differences stand out to you, but for me, being Korean in Korea, I’m used to it.

Christina Hur: Yeah, I’ve noticed that, too.

Most people start classical piano or violin young and then it fades out. And jazz is even rarer. I mean, my school’s jazz ensemble went from 15 people to 5 people in two years. Maybe they just weren’t into jazz, but I think the bigger thing was the way the conductor decided on a radical shift from reading sheet music to pure improvisation. It definitely felt scary. So I feel like the way it’s presented and taught is really important. Like there needs to be a balance. Listening to the records of the greats, writing transcriptions, performing them to get a real feel for improv…

Maria Kim: Yeah, jazz isn’t really popular music anywhere in the world anymore, so it can be hard to find people who love it. But as you go through life, you meet them one by one, and eventually, you create your own community of jazz lovers. The good thing for you is that you’re so close to New York City, so you’ll have many opportunities.

Christina Hur: Yeah, this is one of the most important things for me. As I’m doing college applications, I’m thinking I definitely have to be near a major city.

Maria Kim: Mhm.

Christina Hur: So right now, it’s either next to New York City or Chicago. I was lucky growing up so close to New York City, because I could go whenever I wanted. That was a big influence on me getting to know jazz. Someone from the Midwest probably wouldn’t have the same opportunity. Location is pretty important.

Maria Kim: Yeah, if you could choose your university, music major or not, go to New York. There’s no other place like it…so many jazz musicians, so many jazz lovers. I release my records through a New York label, La Reserve, and with Sony Music. Before, Sony Music Korea didn’t know much about jazz, but working with La Reserve helped me reach listeners online. Working with New York musicians is also valuable… they know everything. Finding a mentor in New York is ideal, even just one lesson.

You don’t have to major in jazz. I learned it’s more about building social connections with real musicians—listening to music, knowing people. That’s what matters. Since you’re already near New York, you can start going to jam sessions, play one tune, even if you don’t know how to improvise. Ask anyone for lessons, even one-time lessons. Many musicians are enthusiastic about educating the next generation. Take lessons from great pianists and you’ll experience a lot, whether you’re in music school or not. Do you have any favorite pianists?

Christina Hur: I can’t really choose anyone right now, but the first pianist I really liked was Bill Evans. I used to listen to him exclusively. Now, there are many others I like… Also Erroll Garner, especially Concert by the Sea, and for Bill Evans, Explorations is one of my favorites. I also really enjoy Keith Jarrett and Brad Mehldau’s style recently. And do you know Aaron Parks?

Maria Kim: Yeah, he came to Korea.

Christina Hur: Oh, really? He also agreed to talk to me, which I was really happy about. I really love his music.

Maria Kim: Yeah, his work with Norma Winston, the vocalist, is really great. He’s also been working a lot with a Korean drummer, JK.

Christina Hur: Mhm. Oh, I talked to him too.

Maria Kim: Really?

Christina Hur: Well, he agreed to talk to me.

Maria Kim: That’s the jazz circle…really tight-knit.

Christina Hur: Yeah, I follow a lot of them on Instagram, and they all follow each other, so it really feels close-knit.

Maria Kim: Exactly. So many great musicians… Aaron Parks is a good example of the style you like. It’s subtle, quiet, thoughtful while playing… you really feel the melody rather than being overtly expressive. I’d also suggest Fred Hersch; he’s in that kind of style.

Christina Hur: Mhm, Fred Hersch…

Maria Kim: Fred Hersch could be a scary teacher, but he’s a great musician. Aaron Parks, Bianculli, Kenny Barron—they all play in that style. Kenny Barron is still performing, which is amazing. Meeting Ron Carter, the bassist, who plays with Barron, and Donald Vega would be great too. Donald Vega plays in the Golden Striker trio, and there are so many incredible musicians in New York. Go to concerts, and at the end, you can introduce yourself: “Great concert—I’m a jazz pianist too, or I will be.”

Christina Hur: Yeah, I’ve been planning to do that actually. And I’m just really grateful to be close to New York. It’s such a lively music scene. I always go to see the NY Philharmonic… it’s incredible to be near such a vibrant scene.

Maria Kim: You have a long life ahead, so nothing’s too late. Even if you start going to New York at 20 and begin meeting musicians, it’s fine. Many great jazz musicians had to struggle at first. For example, Miles Davis’s dad wanted him to pursue classical music, so he went to Juilliard for classical trumpet but secretly attended jam sessions and jazz clubs at night. He met Charlie Parker, memorized all his songs, and eventually got called to play.

Christina Hur: Yes…

Maria Kim: You don’t have to go to a jazz school. On stage, no one asks about your GPA or which school you attended—they only care about your playing. If you want to study jazz, whether through lessons or not, you have to memorize hundreds of tunes. I memorized around 700–800 songs. When you go to play with someone, if they say, “Hey, want to play Autumn Leaves?” you need to know it. Even if your school only allows reading sheet music, take it as an opportunity to learn melodies and side-read. Memorize as many songs as you can and listen to all the jazz musicians, especially those active in the New York jazz scene.

Christina Hur: Mhm, mhm.

Maria Kim: Build relationships with people like Norman Winston. The more people who say good things about you, the more opportunities you’ll have. Even if your parents don’t approve, or there’s some other obstacle, keep listening to jazz, keep meeting jazz people, and keep being among them. Eventually, you’ll find your way. Many jazz legends didn’t go to jazz school… they learned by playing among musicians.

Christina Hur: Yeah. When I first got interested in jazz, I spent two years not telling anyone about it, just listening to everything. I felt I needed to learn jazz history first, all the great musicians, all the jazz standards, and the melodies. I’m still doing that now. Even if nobody told me to do that, I felt that knowing the history and standards was essential to really appreciate jazz. And what you said about jazz being all about relationships with other people, the social aspect, really resonates with me.

Maria Kim: Yep.

Christina Hur: That’s definitely what I’m keeping in mind right now.

Maria Kim: Mhm.

Christina Hur: Even though I’m not going to major in jazz, I find myself thinking about the jazz ensembles and the musicology professors at schools I’m applying to. And I’m not applying as a music major, but I think it’s enough for me to be able to talk to those people. Even if it doesn’t mean I’ll be playing jazz all the time. For years now, even if I haven’t had lessons, being able to listen to jazz and have people around me has helped me a lot. That’s definitely something that helped me get into jazz in the first place. So, if you recommend something for a new jazz listener, or someone who wants to play, do you think listening is the most important?

Maria Kim: Yes, because you’ll have many questions, and all the answers are in the music, in the records. Many of my students ask lots of questions, like, is it okay to play triplets with 16th notes? I tell them, listen to this—Charlie Parker does it, my teachers do it—and they realize that the great legends did it, so maybe they can too. You have to learn music that way.

Christina Hur: Mhm.

Maria Kim: When students start learning from teachers or YouTube videos, sometimes they play things incorrectly. For example, bossa nova on the piano—they try to play the rhythm as if it were percussion. But on piano, you play the melody. If you just learn from books or online videos, you might get wrong information. You have to check either with your teacher or by listening to the actual record to see if it’s correct. You have to prove it to yourself and get the answer from the record: is it okay to do this? You can do anything, but you have to really listen and see if it works.

Christina Hur: Do you have any other advice?

Maria Kim: Memorize music and know more people. And, as I said earlier, keep pursuing it. Many people I went to college with quit for various reasons… changed interests, careers, or family. Some opened cafes, became Pilates instructors, or focused on being full-time parents. One great saxophone player became a firefighter to support his family and had to quit playing professionally. I’d say, if possible, get married later. After you’re settled in your profession… because it’s really difficult to balance both.

Christina Hur: Yeah, no, I’ve already decided that a long time ago. I tend to put romantic relationships last, and I love working anyway.

Maria Kim: You’re still young, so you’ll have fun, but I always put music first. Even if I dated someone, I wouldn’t date anyone who hates jazz.

Christina Hur: Definitely, you need someone with the same values, especially since music is such a big part of your life.

Maria Kim: Exactly. I might make compromises for love, but I would never give up music for anything. Two days ago, we lost Chris Barca, a great drummer and vibraphone player who taught many musicians. Even while battling cancer, he continued playing gigs and recording until the end. His dedication taught me a lot… he wanted to be remembered as a magician and never gave up. The jazz community is full of people who don’t give up. Many talented musicians pursue other careers, and that’s fine if they’re happy, but becoming a professional musician requires so much dedication.

Christina Hur: Yeah, being a musician already means you have to really love the music, because the average musician isn’t going to make much money.

Maria Kim: Exactly.

Christina Hur: And they have to really work hard and have a strong mindset.

Maria Kim: Mhm. Your parents might worry about the financial side of being a musician, but I’d say keep recording, advertising yourself, and playing gigs. Over 10–20 years, you’ll build experiences, connections, and eventually get paid more. If you have confidence in yourself, you can support your music. Many people struggle early on, but just keep going.

Christina Hur: Mhm. Okay, now switching gears… have you ever faced struggles as a female jazz musician?

Maria Kim: I was fortunate to be surrounded by good musicians, but yes, there can be difficulties. The good thing is, you can choose whom to work with. For example, one student told me a famous musician asked her to rehearse in a hotel room. I told her, of course not! She could say no and insist on a proper studio rehearsal. If anyone makes you uncomfortable or tries to pressure you, just say no… they can’t harm you. That’s a worst-case scenario, and it’s rare, but you have to be strong.

Christina Hur: What about general attitudes? Like, when people talk about jazz? I mean, I feel like even from how jazz is generally portrayed, especially in the U.S... people only talk about the great male jazz musicians from the 20th century. And sometimes you hear about the female musicians from the early days of jazz, but I feel like they're not as highlighted as the men are. And even in the modern day, when you hear jazz musicians talk, they kind of assume that any jazz musician being referred to generally is gonna be male.

Maria Kim: Yeah, I think a lot of times, as a female musician, you might find it difficult to mingle with male musicians. That’s one reason there aren’t many female jazz musicians. Early in your career, you’re surrounded by fellow young musicians. Many times, if you’re attractive, they may try to treat you as a woman. You have to set certain boundaries: they’re your co-workers, your colleagues, not men to you. You have to maintain distance, but at the same time, be close enough to work well together. That was really difficult for me early on.

After they get married or have girlfriends, you have to stay friends but not hurt the feelings of their partners. You have to build a big “family” with everyone. If you’re in that inner circle, you keep getting offers for gigs. As a female musician, balancing distance and friendship is challenging.

Also, in any country, when women get married, have kids, they need to spend lots of time caring for them. I have many female musicians around me. For example, my drummer has a four-year-old daughter. Sometimes she gets a call from the kindergarten about an allergy reaction, and she’s about to go on stage. These situations happen a lot. Without establishing your career first, you may be forced to give it up.

Hilah Jordan, who recently passed away, was a mentor for many jazz musicians in the New York jazz scene. In the beginning, she traded her music for her baby, working various jobs to feed her child and take care of her family. Keeping relationships with male musicians was also challenging.

You might have some advantages as a female musician. Sometimes you get gig offers specifically for female pianists or vocalists. For example, Benny Bennett III mentioned that even at his level, sometimes people ask him to bring a female vocalist. There are pros and cons. You just have to keep trying what you can do as a female musician, but at the same time, as I told you earlier, I want to present myself as an equal human being, not as a female musician. I'm like, hey, I'm just a musician, don't treat me like a woman, you know? Oftentimes, I'm being a leader, and a leader is a person who gets paid—not that I'm better than other musicians.

Christina Hur: Mhm.

Maria Kim: So, I do lots of paperwork for the concerts, to the promoters, give all the things organized, make itineraries for the musicians. I organize the charts and send them to the musicians. I think I'm more thorough doing that kind of paperwork, so I'm just being a leader and taking care of my musicians, making sure they get gigs through me and get paid through me. When I'm on a tour with them, I make sure they get proper hotel accommodations, rides, meals, sometimes buy them coffee to keep them awake. Lots of things you have to do. Some of my musicians call me Korean Mom, Mama Kim. As a female musician, there are certain things you could do better than other male musicians. I think that's one good thing.

Christina Hur: Oh wow, you seem very confident and responsible. Do you have a group that you usually play with?

Maria Kim: Yeah.

Christina Hur: Same people, or…

Maria Kim: I always try to have at least two musicians per instrument. Many rhythm section players, like bassists or drummers, are very busy and not playing in just one group. Sometimes you call one person and they're already booked. I try to keep relationships with both of them so they wouldn't get jealous, like, oh, he's getting more gigs, and the other drummer feels left out. I try to give equal opportunities for gigs and treat them equally. It can be difficult; sometimes members get jealous.

One drummer called me, asking why I hadn't called him. I explained I was working on different projects. It didn’t mean I wouldn’t call him again. He said, "I've been loyal, how can you not call me?" I apologized, but…

Christina Hur: Oh, my…

Christina Hur: What do you think it means to be a true jazz musician? Do you think there's a certain level of mastery that you need to have achieved in order to be considered a proper jazz musician? Or do you ever see someone play and think, oh, they're not really... well, of course you can tell their skill level, but do you think it affects what you think a real jazz musician is?

Maria Kim: So that kind of stuff is really deep. But I mean, if you're good, everyone knows. You feel it from the audience, your fellow musicians, how they look at you, smile, laugh, call you for gigs. If you're not that good, people just say, oh, it was a good concert, and they don’t call you. It’s a tough industry, but you just know.

But the thing is, in terms of being good, there’s no strict limit. Like language—you’re fluent in English, right? I learned English when I turned 20, so my English isn’t perfect. You would notice grammatical errors, but I can communicate with you. When you say someone is good in English, it means you just know everything—you’re fluent. Do you still need to study English? To communicate with others, you don’t have to, right? Learning jazz is like that.

So, when we say, "you're good," it means you can communicate with other people. When you're at that level, you just know—there are no words you don’t know. You don’t have to ask, "What is that?" You just have a conversation with other people, and you have no problem. You don’t feel any difficulties playing anything with anyone. You just know everything. You wouldn’t even call it, "I'm confident in speaking English," because it’s just your language. You don’t even feel it—you just speak it. Being a good jazz musician is just like that.

Christina Hur: Yeah.

Maria Kim: Some people think you have to become a good musician by practicing constantly, but at a certain point, you realize you know everything. To become that kind of musician, you just have to listen and practice until you feel like you know everything. And when you know everything, you just feel it.

We just call them jazz musicians. If you don’t know certain things, like if you meet someone and don’t know how to play, you feel lost—you couldn’t improvise, you might lose the measure, or play different bars than someone else. You’re not fluent in the language. Once you become fluent and able to communicate in jazz, then that’s it.

Christina Hur: So, do you ever play with people you haven’t played with before?

Maria Kim: Yeah. Last year, I went to Northeastern State University in Oklahoma to do a guest lecture. I applied with Lewis Nash and Rodney Whitaker. They asked me who I wanted to play with, and I said, anyone. They said, "We’ll call anyone." I was like, really? I wanted to call Lewis Nash and Rodney Whitaker, people I’ve wanted to play with my whole life. They said they were booked. I was like, oh my gosh! I went from Korea, they came from their city, and we just met, said hi, did a brief sound check, and played. It was amazing.

Many people are very dependent on rehearsals. Rehearsal is important, but everyone knows what they’re doing, and we just play together. It can be better than people who don’t know what they’re doing but do hundreds of rehearsals. You have to train yourself to play whenever, with whomever. Experience a lot—jam sessions, playing with other musicians, from small stages to bigger stages. I played in small bars, hotel lobbies, cruise ships for years. I’ve been performing for more than 20 years. In my early years, I played at a bar where nobody paid attention. One time, there were drunk people around me, someone kept tapping me while I was playing. I said, "Hey, can you play 'Fly Me to the Moon'?" I was like, "Oh, leave me alone!"

That was necessary for me—to be able to play music no matter what happens. Other people could be loud, tap me, or band members could do something stupid, but I didn’t mind. I could focus no matter what. During that time, since nobody listened to me, I played new songs I wasn’t comfortable with on stage to practice. On a cruise ship for a month, I was floating with strangers, swimming, eating, singing, enjoying the scenery, and learning new songs every day. Back then, when nobody listened, I practiced a lot on stage, which was really helpful for doing many things confidently on stage.

Christina Hur: Okay, so then… when you're actually improvising, what are you thinking? Is it just that you improvise based on past skills, or… do you just try to play freely without really thinking? How does it work for you?

Maria Kim: You think, but it’s like within yourself—subconsciously. You wouldn’t even notice. We’re talking right now, but you’re not consciously thinking about every word. I don’t really realize that I’m talking. You ask me a question, and I try to answer. I’m not thinking about grammar or which word to say. I just speak.

Improvisation is like that. In the early stage, you have to learn things, just like when you were young. You learned words from your parents first, then at school. By the time you enter elementary school, you already know how to speak, even without formal education. You just learn from family and friends. Once you’re able to speak, then you learn grammar.

I don’t like learning music theory first and then improvising. You have to improvise from the start, even with meaningless phrases. In the beginning, don’t try to make everything perfect. Like a one-year-old learning to speak, you just start. Even if what you say is meaningless, it’s okay. You learn words from others—listening to records, picking up cool phrases, and applying them to other songs. For example, you learn a phrase, then try to use it in “Autumn Leaves” or other songs you like. You learn one thing at a time. Later, like learning words “mom” or “dad,” you gradually learn grammar.

Christina Hur: Hmm, yeah.

Maria Kim: Music theory comes later. Then others explain, “This is mom, this is dad,” and you realize. For me, improvisation is a natural process. When you’ve learned everything, it becomes muscle memory.

You don’t think, it just comes out. Like language—Korean people say “ah,” Americans say “ouch.” Different training produces different natural responses. In jazz, your muscle memory tells you what to do when playing with others. My brain thinks, but it also just directs my actions naturally.

Christina Hur: Mhm, yeah. When you’re improvising, do you have a certain aim?

Maria Kim: Sometimes, like in conversation, I might think about saying something helpful, a general direction, but I don’t plan every detail. I don’t memorize exactly what I’m going to say because I don’t know what you’ll ask.

So, I have a general plan—like, I’ll say something to guide you—but I wouldn’t limit myself, like saying, “I’m only playing pentatonic scale today.” I don’t do that.

Christina Hur: So when you're playing, how do you balance all the jazz traditions that musicians usually follow? Do you ever try to add your own unique flavor to your playing?

Maria Kim: It could vary for many musicians, but now you’re almost grown up. You know what you like and don’t like, right? Your personality is almost established. It could change over time, but by around 18, you’re mostly you.

When I was younger, I didn’t think, “I want to be a grown-up who loves jazz and is passionate about my career.” I just lived my life. When I turned 18, 19, 20, I realized what I liked—hanging out with friends, pizza, dogs. You don’t try to become that person; you meet people, experience things, live in certain places, and your parents and surroundings influence you. When you look back, you see who you became.

Music is the same. I don’t try to be myself when I play or try to be unique, but all my experiences—being Korean, being female, going to school, listening to certain records—shape me. When I make decisions about notes or actions in music, it’s influenced by my life. It’s more of a subconscious process.

Christina Hur: Mhm. So you have certain styles you like, certain ways of playing. Are there any in particular you always stick to, or do you try to change it up?

Maria Kim: When I went to NEC, it was a very unique school. It’s not big, but it had little bases for free jazz. A lot of free jazz musicians taught at NEC and started their careers there, so I learned a lot from them. In the beginning, it was surprising. At my first school concert, one guitarist had his guitar on his lap and was plucking it with a plastic fork from Whole Foods. I was like, what is that?

Later, when I studied it and understood what they were doing, I realized I liked certain parts of free jazz, but not everything. I didn’t like the plastic fork thing, but if I opened my heart and listened, I wouldn’t judge too much. Free jazz musicians pursue their music without wanting to be evaluated by others. They often felt discriminated against or misunderstood, so they played in ways people couldn’t immediately understand.

When I tried to understand them, I could relate to some aspects of their music. So in my improvisation, I incorporate different approaches than typical bebop players. My first teacher at NEC said, “Do that somewhere like Berklee, but not in front of me.” He didn’t love my improvisation, but he respected my music. I appreciated that opinion.

At Berklee, everyone was focused on bebop—Charlie Parker, Clifford Brown—who plays faster, who plays more notes. At NEC, I learned a different view. They encouraged me to write my own music, improvise differently, and leave space in phrases rather than just play more notes faster.

You mentioned you love Aaron Parks and Bill Evans. They think deeply in their playing, and I think you would appreciate more modern jazz, post-bop, post-modern styles. But to do something different, you need to know bebop first.

It’s like learning a language. If I didn’t know English and tried to speak randomly, it might not make sense. Similarly, free jazz musicians often need to play something structured, not just anything—it’s hard to create something truly new. To innovate, you must know everything else first, or you might accidentally repeat what others have done. So, if you want to be a bebop musician, you need to know what bebop is and what isn’t. You need to explore many styles—even if you don’t play all of them—so you can organize them in your mind and decide how to apply different approaches in your music.

Christina Hur: That’s why I’m still exploring different aspects of jazz. I can’t say what my favorite is yet because I’ve enjoyed so many styles for different reasons. Every time I discover something new, I’m like, “Oh, I really like this,” but I still don’t have a definite favorite. In classical music, I have a bit more experience, so now I know my preferences. I really enjoy 20th-century and modern music, the Baroque era, but I’m not that into the classical era or even the romantic era these days. In jazz, I’m still exploring, so I don’t have a firm opinion yet.

Maria Kim: That’s okay. You’ll find your answer over time. Just like you realized you prefer modern classical over romantic music, after listening to many jazz records, you’ll start noticing what you like and don’t like. Trust your own sense…you don’t need to endure music you don’t enjoy just because others say you should. There’s so much music and so many musicians that even a lifetime wouldn’t be enough to hear everything. New records are released every day, so it’s important to focus on what resonates with you. Later, when you create music, you’ll compile all the elements you love and present it to the world to see who connects with it.

It’s like cooking. When I was younger, my mom would put cucumber in kimbap even though I didn’t like it. Now that I cook for myself, I don’t include it, and I might find people who love cucumber enjoy it. Music works the same way. You include only the things you love, and it becomes a journey to find people who connect with your choices.

Christina Hur: Mhm.

Maria Kim: It’s an adventure… finding listeners who share your tastes.

Christina Hur: So, for example, in your most recent album, do you feel like you really did that—produced what you wanted, rather than trying to appeal to a certain audience?

Maria Kim: Mhm.

Christina Hur: So you feel your music is authentic.

Maria Kim: Mhm. The thing is, you can never predict how people will react to your music. There are songs I love the most, and people don’t even notice them. Other times, a song I put in as a small break between my favorite tunes ends up being the one people love the most. You just can’t predict it.

Christina Hur: Hmm…

Maria Kim: I recently helped Samara Joy with a Korean media interview and translation. She said the same thing… she can’t predict what people will like, so she just focuses on what she loves. If people respond positively, that’s great. If they don’t, at least you were happy making it. But if you create something you don’t like and people don’t like it either, you gain nothing. You have to do what you love and be confident in it. You really have to pursue what you love.

Christina Hur: Mm-hmm, yeah. So, when you play with different people, how do you know their style? Or if you play with the same people, is it because you already know how they’ll play?

Maria Kim: It’s like making friends. You meet many people, but not everyone becomes a friend. In the beginning, you observe, see if you share interests, and sometimes it clicks, sometimes it doesn’t. Early in your career, you need to play with as many people as possible.

I’ve played with many musicians. When I can’t play with them directly, I listen to their records or attend their gigs. Sometimes, just observing as a listener teaches me more than playing together, because when I’m performing, I focus on my own playing and might miss details.

Before playing with someone, I listen to all their recordings, see how they interact with others, and try to gauge if we can really communicate musically. You can’t control other people on stage—you can’t tell your bassist, “Don’t do that”—so you have to accept and react to what they do.

Finding the right people takes time. You need to learn how to interact with them. If a musician is sensitive, you avoid irritating them. Getting used to each other is part of the process. Even before performing with someone, you need to understand them… so I always listen to their recordings and go to their gigs before working with them.

Christina Hur: So you need to know how they play in order to decide if you want to play with them.

Maria Kim: Mm-hmm. A lot of people just hire someone they’re personally close with, but music styles can be so different. Some try to micromanage—“Hey, play with the brush, don’t hit the cymbal”—but that makes the musician unhappy. You need to trust them and imagine, “If I were the drummer, how would I play this?” or “If I were the bassist, what would I do here?” That kind of empathy helps you play together.

Some people only play with those they’re comfortable with and micromanage others, but I don’t think you have to choose that way. Ideally, you can play with someone you get along with personally and who’s a great musician. If you have to choose, I’d pick a great musician over a great friend.

Christina Hur: Mhm.

Maria Kim: Even a world-class musician can have an off day, or try something new during a gig that you’re not familiar with. The most familiar musician could feel like a stranger in that moment. You can’t control other people.

But what you can do is make your music sound like yourself—no matter who you play with, where you play, or the style, whether it’s Korean songs, swing, bebop, or Latin. You need to communicate with others while still expressing yourself.

Maria Kim: I really appreciate your calm and thoughtful personality. Whether you’re talking to me, Aaron Parks, or JK, you’ll still be yourself. Some people, like me, talk fast and a lot, while others, like JK, are funny in different ways. No matter what, you stay true to yourself.

So, I wouldn’t worry too much about whether you play with highly skilled musicians or familiar people. You’ll have many opportunities to play with all kinds of people. Every day is different… you might play with someone new on one project, a trumpeter from the States on another, or encounter a style you’ve never played before.

The key is your mindset… give your best, put everything into the music, focus completely, and let yourself fully engage. Most of the time, the audience or listeners can feel that, and they respond positively.

Christina Hur: It’s just that, because I don’t play like you do—in groups and improvising with lots of different people—I imagine that if I hear someone playing something I don’t know how to adapt to, I’ll feel really stressed out.

I think it would be easier to gravitate toward people whose playing is comfortable to me and whose style I already know, rather than someone unfamiliar. I feel like I would be really stressed during actual playing, and instead of making the music sound like myself, I’d try to adapt to how they play.

I’ve heard a lot of people say that improvisation is successful when it sounds like a real conversation, not awkward, which means musicians know how to adapt to each other. So, as someone observing, I feel like I’d focus more on adapting rather than expressing my own voice.

But I’m not sure if it’s different for vocalists and pianists… maybe pianists are more in an accompanying role rather than leading.

Maria Kim: Some pianists are more accompanists, while others act more like leaders or frontmen. It can differ depending on how you approach it, but I wouldn’t worry too much. What you described is completely natural… it’s part of learning jazz.

Even great musicians, mentors, and teachers have experienced this. Everyone goes through it, and somehow, they find a way. Meeting the right people and playing the right music is key. A little stress is actually good. It’s a sign that you’re learning. Some people try to avoid stress completely, but a little bit of stress, anxiety, or worry is helpful. It shows you’re aware of what you don’t know and motivates you to learn.

For example, in college, one of my teachers didn’t like me at first. In a group class of ten people, she called me to the front and had me repeat the same phrase over and over for an entire hour. I almost cried but held it in. She kept calling me, saying “one more time, one more time,” and I was humiliated in front of the class.

The next semester, I signed up for all her classes—group and private lessons—because I knew she could teach me what I needed to improve. I told her, “You clearly see something I need to work on, so tell me everything, and I’ll do whatever it takes.” She didn’t say anything—just looked at me.

Christina Hur: Yeah, that’s why I feel like jazz musicians are so brave. They’re able to overcome challenges, gain new experiences, and constantly learn from them. I really admire that. Especially from you, I feel this confident, self-assured vibe and a growth mindset that I look up to.

Maria Kim: Thanks. At the end of school, when I graduated, that same teacher hugged me and cried, and I realized how much I had grown. Now, she’s one of my favorite teachers, and we laugh about those times. Back then, I was stressed, but I learned that she wasn’t being harsh because she didn’t like me. Listening to my recordings from back then, I realize I didn’t like them either. It was a good learning experience.

Any difficulties in your music are opportunities to learn. Take them as challenges before you get to the big stages—TV shows, Carnegie Hall, Lincoln Center. You want to be fully prepared. Facing challenges now helps you grow and gain experience.

Christina Hur: So now that you’ve matured in your playing, do you prefer playing with the same people or…?

Maria Kim: I prefer playing with different people all the time. I have so many projects I want to do—solo, duos, trios, quartets, quintets, big band, string players, horn players. I want to release a solo album and even a Christmas album with a big band… It’ll be so fun!

I’m naturally introverted, so when I was younger, I wasn’t comfortable meeting new people. I’d just sit in the corner and avoid talking. But over time, through positive experiences and relationships in this industry, I realized it’s rewarding to meet new people, have conversations, and play with them.

If I hadn’t become a musician, I think my life would have been very different. Many Korean people are more introverted compared to Americans, and I was somewhat introverted myself. But spending time with outgoing, extroverted musicians helped me grow. So don’t be afraid to open your heart and embrace new experiences. You’ll learn many positive things and have many rewarding experiences in your life. You’ll have a lot of fun if you take on whatever comes your way.

Christina Hur: Okay, thank you for the advice. I know I’ve already taken up a lot of your time, but I just want to ask one last thing—Is there any work, like an album or a piece, that you’re really proud of and would like to share?

Maria Kim: Mmm, yes. My recent albums, Love Letters and Misty Blue from last year, are ones I really love. The more albums I release, the more I learn. When I released my first album ten years ago, I did my best with what I knew at the time. Since then, I’ve continued learning from others and from experience.

I like my recent albums more, and I think that’s true for many musicians. Often, people feel uneasy listening to their older recordings because they see flaws, but I know I did my best with the knowledge I had.

I want to record more because I’m turning 40 soon. Many of my friends at this age are in their prime—physically, mentally, and in terms of knowledge—after 20 or 30 years of learning and experience. We still have the energy to work, travel, and perform, even if it’s tiring.

I think about the legends I’ve met—Chris, Russell Malone, Sheila Jordan—and how, as they got older, physical limitations sometimes slowed them down, even though their knowledge of jazz remained strong. I want to make the most of my abilities while I can, so I don’t regret not having recorded or performed more later.

When I was younger, I had the energy to play but not enough knowledge or experience to do everything I wanted. Now, I want to do as much as possible for the next 20 years. So, I definitely recommend my recent albums.

Christina Hur: I actually discovered Misty Blue last year and really liked it! But I will listen to Love Letters.

Maria Kim: Yep. Thank you.

Christina Hur: Thank you so much for talking to me… and for more than two hours, too.

Maria Kim: Hmm, nope, it’s fine.

Christina Hur: Because I know it’s already around 1 PM in Korea.

Maria Kim: Wow! Yeah, 1 PM. Is it like midnight for you?

Christina Hur: Yeah, it is.

Maria Kim: Just let me know anytime you have questions, or if you’re practicing and want feedback. You could take a video and send it to me, and I’ll let you know how it sounds. Also, you’ll be talking to other great musicians too—Aaron, JK, and many others—so just enjoy those conversations.

Christina Hur: Mhm. Yeah, thank you.

Maria Kim: Have fun talking to them, and let me know anytime you need help. I wish I could see you next time, maybe next year when I go to New York.

Christina Hur: Yeah, yeah, okay.

Maria Kim: I’ll let you know.

Christina Hur: Oh, thank you so much. I’ll stay updated.

Maria Kim: Bye-bye! Good night.

Christina Hur: Thank you, bye!